March 8, 2009
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know what? chicken butt.
I had an epistemological discussion this morning with Elsa, or perhaps I got up on a soapbox and fanned my undies– I’m not really sure. she’s very patient with me.
I was saying I get bothered when people assume that what is true for them, or that what they perceive to be true, is object truth. I say red and you say blue. maybe one of us has a visual disturbance. we both see what we see. however, I believe there is a non-relative truth. still, there is a relative truth for each of us in this situation. the trick is in not being offensive in asserting what you BELIEVE to be the truth. whatever you believe to be the truth is true for you. it may or may not be the object truth, and it may or may not be my own relative truth.
the tree either fell or it didn’t. the cat is either dead or alive in the box. relative truth matters tho, as it’s how we navigate our stupid little lives through objective reality. if you’re trying to row a boat with someone you do have to find some middle truth or you may end up traveling in solopsistical circles.
I find nothing more helpful than the analogy of the blind men and the elephant (here) but I tend to gravitate more toward the story of the blind elephants and the man: man is FLAT.
Comments (28)
I talk too much and I mis-perceive all the time. If I shut up more often I would get the whole story but unfortunately I do not. Nevertheless, for those who can and will quiet me without getting mad, I will see their whole picture. I am so old but I really hope I figure this shut the fuck up thing out. Great blog. And Elsa’s too.
@queenie -
thanks Kweenie-babe. I think sometimes the “getting mad” thing can be a matter of perspective as well. you’ve got the trunk and I’ve got the tail, but sometimes that other guy standing under the tail has a more difficult time relating due to the experience of regular loads of shit falling on his head.
“all I wanted was a pepsi, just one pepsi, and she wouldn’t give it to me…” :p
y’know, or this.
I gotcha, totally. exactly, right on. I am thinking of my kids and I “communicating”. We talk all over each other. Accuse each other of doing it but still do it. I find it funny but I can imagine how frustrating it is for them and others. I love that song, what movie is that from…dang, I am trying to remember. Somewhere I have the soundtrack…ack…Repoman?
Funny.. you’re talking about communication, I’m talkin’ about excommunication
I do agree – there are two sides to everything. And then there’s the truth.
@Morgane -
ah well, you know, you say ‘tomato’– I say ‘who ate all the damned doughnuts??’ I think these are compatible world views.
@satori -
Oh, I was agreeing with you
And I’m terrible! While I do make a conscious effort sometimes to be more sympathetic to differing viewpoints, sometimestimes (ha, like my Catholicism blog) I just haven’t got much time for “the other side” 
I don’t usually see things in such black and white terms.
@queenie -
*dingding* repo man. a huge part of the formation of my youthful world view.
@Morgane -
oh I got that– I was just unclear. BAHAHHAHAHAHA~!
your comment now has sparked a song stuck in my head, but not as the who wrote: people try to gg-get me down (talking ’bout excommunication…).
but it’s pleasant, very pleasant.
@satori -
*Giggles*
They’d be proud, man!
Man. Donuts.
I agree with you and try not to be as opinionated as I am sometimes because if you flip the world upside down, it’s still the word–but sure as hell changes things, doesn’t it? Thought I’d throw in my own analogy in this blog comment.
Anyhow, last night I was kind of discussing this with my parents when I was talking about my disdain of Ayn Rand. err…ayn rand….excuse, me. I’ve gotta go thing about something non ayn rand related.
that’s think, not thing
@Fodon -
I’ve never read rand, nor have I felt like that was a huge hurdle to overcome in life, you know, not reading rand. I like to read about sedaris’ profane brother.
I’ve never read any rand, myself. I’ve always assumed I would get around to it eventually. unless I get hit by a bus. or some sort of awkward religious conversion.
I believe there are Truths, truths, and opinions. Most people are only proficient in opinions. Their own, that is. Religion is not Truth, it’s opinion. Individual opinion. Gravity is a Truth. You can deny the exisitence of it, but you’re still gonna go splat if you jump off a cliff. I can say that god is dead, I’m not going to burst into flames. Unless some jackoff dumps gasoline on me and lights me on fire for saying it. I’m a fan of the whole we’re all stupid idiots that know virtually nothing about the nature of the universe camp.
@MuertaVida -
you’re going to Universe Camp too?? sweet. we can shortsheet everybody’s bunks. fodon’s coming too but don’t tell her too much, I told her it was Pirate Camp.
I kwoted you today: my desire for company occasionally trumps my disgust of the human race.
magnificence. sometimes I substitute “fast food” for “company” and pass it off as my own.
or there’s Lily Tomlin: that is not truth, lady, that is lies. but the truth can be made up if you know how. and that’s the truth. pbbbbbbbb.
@satori - baha when you say it, I sound so brilliant. ooh oooh I wanna go to Pirate Camp!
@MuertaVida -
you know, originally the Universe Camp was just a ruse to cover selling you both to the gypsies, but now, well, Pirate Camp sounds like it’d be worth forgoing a few extra sou.
I wonder if Kim knows what pirate camp means…because it means I’m in charge and get to wear a big ole hat, while everyone else whores themselves off. you know, for me. Because I’m the madame pirate`–there’s gotta be a term for that. Keeper of the booty? Captain Hook..er. Madam Thar she blows….something.
oh and even though this next statement is totally against what you’re saying: No one needs to read Rand. It’s a waste of time. TRUTH!
Now let’s just wait for all the Rand fans to come out of the woodwork..er, I mean argh. Scally Wags!
@Fodon -
oh I’m all about judgements as long as they’re not against me.
shhhhh, she doesn’t know about the boat idea… two words: shang hai’d!
@satori - uh I can read. as if.
GIG’s UP! SCATTER!
@satori -
I think one point you should’ve made in your post is that you live in the most judgmental town in the world. I think most people who read this understand your rant, but don’t understand what it’s like to live where you do, where the majority of the population doesn’t get what you’re saying. Nor would care to.
Meanwhile, you learn something new every day. Who knew kim could read?
I find it amazing that anyone can communicate with anyone else, like at all. I often wonder whether or not we actually do, or if it’s just a case of each individual making a cognitive leap and assuming the other somebodies are up to speed and on the same page. And then there are other times, when I’m completely sure I’m just the figment of someone else’s dream and their fantasy life really really sucks.
And if you are not careful, you’ll get tossed into an institution ya keep asking for that Pepsi.
Well said. This is exactly why I can only hold 15 minute (max) conversations with my mother.
I needed to look up two words. I love it when others make me think. I think you make an excellent point, even if I tend to get somewhat sanctimonious at times.
@siennachartreuse -
I had to as well: I get epistemology and ontology mixed up often enough to fear using them without prior reference. you never seem sanctimonious to me. but then I usually agree with you– I can’t think of an instance when I didn’t.